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DC Database talk:Prime Earth Project
Okay, go nuts! This page is where you can discuss our policy on the splitting of New Earth and Prime Earth versions of characters, and explain or justify your decision/intention to create Prime Earth pages for certain characters. Please remember that if you do create a Prime Earth version of this page, to add them to the list of disambigs to update on the project page this talk page is associated with. Okay, go nuts! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Victor Fries (Prime Earth) Let's get the ball rolling with Victor Fries (Prime Earth). With Batman Annual Vol 2 1, the writers pretty much took his origin and through it out the window. Like, Fries was a murderer since childhood and he doesn't even know Nora. She's just some random lady he fell in love who's inside a cryogenic tube! Approve of a Prime Earth page? --- Harold "The Party" Rocks talk 21:01, August 22, 2013 (UTC) :I agree. He and Nora both need Prime Earth pages (her last name is revealed, but I've forgotten what it is). - Hatebunny (talk) 21:03, August 22, 2013 (UTC) ::Someone added her to pages as "Nora Fields". They probably merged the two. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 21:04, August 22, 2013 (UTC) ::: Question. For Victor, should I use the textless Batman Annual Vol 2 1 picture or does anyone have a better suggestion? --- Harold "The Party" Rocks talk 21:08, August 22, 2013 (UTC) ::::I need to check the annual, so I see if I can come up with an internal panel. How do we handle the PEthing on Nora? She's essentially two characters. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 21:11, August 22, 2013 (UTC) :::::Until we get a better interior image, it'll have to do. He has some appearances in Birds of Prey as well, and one of the Night of the Owls crossovers (Red Hood, I think?). For the PEthing... hmmm... EITHER link to the Nora Fries page as the "previous version" OR Nora Fields, and use the Nora Fries disambig. The latter seems a bit more useful, but she is not the "previous version".- Hatebunny (talk) 21:16, August 22, 2013 (UTC) ::::: I used a comic single panel from Batman Annual Vol 2 1 that was conveniently in his New Earth gallery. Anyway, you said something about mentioning disambigs? Where does that go again? --- Harold "The Party" Rocks talk 21:24, August 22, 2013 (UTC) ::::Just add Victor Fries and Mister Freeze to this page under the line (along with Nora Fries and Nora Fields if you make her a page too). You can either try to apply the dual-highlight version of the disambig template to those pages yourself, or leave that to us. Either way, we're going to check the list periodically, make sure it's done properly (or just done), and then remove them from the list. - Hatebunny (talk) 21:31, August 22, 2013 (UTC) Edward Nygma (Prime Earth) Alright. Round two. Edward Nigma (Prime Earth). Although not as blunt with retconning as Freeze is, in this continuity, Edward acts as Philip Kane's mischievous advisor of Wayne Enterprises while Bruce is assumed dead. Prime Earth Riddler is portrayed as being an egotistical wise-guy instead of the clue-crazed maniac he is on New Earth. In Batman Vol 2 23, Philip Kane calls him by his full name "Edward Nigma." This retcons the fact that he legally changed his name from "Nashton" to "Nigma" while taking up the Riddler alias. Prime Earth page? --- Harold "The Party" Rocks talk 23:50, August 22, 2013 (UTC) :It's "Nygma", actually. Just checked, but I'm okay with this. - Hatebunny (talk) 00:03, August 23, 2013 (UTC) :: I guess I was staring at the Edward Nashton page too long. Edward Nygma (Prime Earth). Fixing the title. --- Harold "The Party" Rocks talk 00:27, August 23, 2013 (UTC) Anthony Zucco (Prime Earth) I was on the fence with this one but I'll bring him up anyway. Anthony Zucco (Prime Earth). On New Earth, Anthony Zucco was a cruel mob boss who was practically obliterated by chopper gunfire in front of Batman and Nightwing. On Prime Earth, Zucco's unspecified death was faked, now has wife and small kids under a different alias, and shows redemption for his character. He is not portrayed as the cruel, uncaring mob boss he was on New Earth. What do you guys think? --- Haroldrocks talk 13:25, August 25, 2013 (UTC) :Wait, choppers? I thought he died of a heart attack in Dark Victory. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 13:32, August 25, 2013 (UTC) :: His New Earth page lists Batman Vol 1 438 as his death. On that page, it says that Batman and Nightwing watched Zucco get gunned down by a helicopter. "Raising his arms above his head and celebrating his first moment outside, Zucco is cut down by a hail of bullets fired from the WGCN news helicopter." --- Haroldrocks talk 15:31, August 25, 2013 (UTC) ::: Just wanted to bring up this guy again. What do you guys think? --- Haroldrocks talk 22:40, December 16, 2013 (UTC) ::::Sure. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 22:44, December 16, 2013 (UTC) Basil Karlo (Prime Earth) Is Basil Karlo getting a Prime Earth page? I saw his red-linked appearance listed on Forever Evil Vol 1 2 and figured I should get the "Okay" here first before doing anything. --- Haroldrocks talk 16:28, October 5, 2013 (UTC) :I'm not ready much Batman but I think you're safe to make him one. :Anyone else notice that we've really been waiting on making Batman-related pages but all these conversations are about Bat-villains. Kyletheobald (talk) 17:50, October 5, 2013 (UTC) :: To clarify, Kyle, should I ignore the red-linked Batman villains from now on? --- Haroldrocks talk 01:10, October 7, 2013 (UTC) :::Nope. You're totally fine. I just found it amusing that pretty much every character is open game outside Bats and the GL's and the only ones I've noticed so far are Batman related. Kyletheobald (talk) 01:31, October 7, 2013 (UTC) ::::Oh, alright. Haha. I don't follow any other heroes so I only make the pages for the villains I know. Anyway, to hasten the process a little, I'll just make a list of Bat-villains that don't have Prime Earth pages that might need them. If any blatantly don't need pages, I'll just cross them off. ::::* Joker (Prime Earth) (Redirected to New Earth, but I thought I'd include him anyway. Just to be safe.) ::::* Harvey Dent (Prime Earth) ::::* Jonathan Crane (Prime Earth) ::::* Bane (Prime Earth) ::::* Ra's al Ghul (Prime Earth) ::::* Talia al Ghul (Prime Earth) (Also a redirect) ::::* Pamela Isley (Prime Earth) ::::* Jervis Tetch (Prime Earth) ::::* Lazlo Valentin (Prime Earth) ::::--- Haroldrocks talk 20:29, October 7, 2013 (UTC) :Of the people on the list you made, only the Mad Hatter and the Scarecrow have had significant changes made to their origin stories. Everyone else has merely appeared - basically as the same character as before. - Hatebunny (talk) 20:14, October 8, 2013 (UTC) :: Alright. No problem. Then I'll just work on those two, then. --- Haroldrocks talk 20:27, October 8, 2013 (UTC) ::: Actually, what about Joker? With our (debatable) origin story given in Batman Vol 2 23.1: The Joker, and how he was handled at the beginning of his run, along with various other things, he seems like he might have changed a suitable amount to justify it. Not to mention he's been showing quite a different face to the public (literally and figuratively). I could be wrong, though. - GZilla311 (talk) :::: Although I'd like to see a Joker (Prime Earth) page, it could be justified for the other side that his childhood is never really touched on on New Earth anyway, and that Death of the Family doesn't really add much to his character to deserve a page. --- Haroldrocks talk 21:53, October 8, 2013 (UTC) :::::Despite my opinion that Scott Snyder doesn't get the Joker as a character, I don't know if the character being a different interpretation counts as the character being a different character. - Hatebunny (talk) 21:55, October 8, 2013 (UTC) Prime Earth First Appearances I noticed that about two-thirds of the Prime Earth pages have the historical first appearance & a third has the current first appearance. Is there a consensus as to which should be used? I personally prefer the current first appearance (or maybe both) with the historical mentioned in notes or trivia. --Mcwoody :My opinion is that it should be New 52 first in the infobox since the note has the original. It lets readers know where to actually find the new 52 first since the note only lists the series and it adds them to the New 52 character category instead of Golden Age, Silver Age or Modern Age. This isn't a set policy though. This is probably as good a place as any to discuss it. Kyletheobald (talk) 14:02, October 9, 2013 (UTC) ::I think it should be original first appearance in the infobox, and first appearance in this continuity in the notes. I think it's silly for new readers to click on the Superman page and read that he was created in 2011. - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 14:05, October 9, 2013 (UTC) New Earth Big Three Character Names I know this isn't directly related, but it does stand to how difficult it is to distinguish some of these things now. On the pages for Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and perhaps others I'm missing, we have them linked as "Superman (Clark Kent)", "Wonder Woman (Diana Prince)", and "Batman (Bruce Wayne)". Now, this would normally be all well and good. It's got both of the continuities in two of those. ...but Wonder Woman has a new page, for her Prime Earth version. Should we change the titles of those pages to "Kal-El (New Earth)", etc etc? For sake of consistency. On the same token as people not wanting to see a late appearance of a well-established hero as their first in the new continuity, they could click on a page linking to what they believe to be Wonder Woman or someone else, and end up in their earlier one when they don't want it. Therefore, I'm proposing that we change the titles of those pages to as I said above (with Diana of Themyscira (New Earth) for Wonder Woman), and and link the things that they are now to the Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman disambiguation pages. It seems like needless confusion. Also, if I'm forgetting someone, sorry about that. GZilla311 (talk) 15:17, October 9, 2013 (UTC) :: This question gets brought up over and over (if I'm understanding you correctly). The reason the big guys break the pattern is for searching's sake. If some random person on the internet wants to learn more about Superman, they will look up "Superman" or "Clark Kent," not "Kal-El (New Earth)" as we originally had it. So, recently, we changed the big ones to "Codename (Common Name)" in order to get to the top of the search engines' results. --- Haroldrocks talk 20:16, October 9, 2013 (UTC) Prankster It was recently revealed in Nightwing Vol 3 24 that the Prankster is Oswald Loomis. If the Prankster was anybody else, I would have made him a page already. But, since this is Prime Earth's incarnation of Loomis, I wanted to post it here first.|Nightwing Vol 3 24}} --- Haroldrocks talk 22:11, October 9, 2013 (UTC) hamburger! :Note to whoever: Spoiler's pretty useless is you read the diffs instead of the actual page ;/ :Just give him a new page. He hasn't been portrayed consistently New Earth (was his weightloss ever explained?) but this is sufficiently different for a PE page. And like you said, if normally he would've gotten a page already.--[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 22:16, October 9, 2013 (UTC) :: I tried to change the appearances quick and painlessly. Anyway, the picture I had my eye on is the WTF cover for Nightwing Vol 3 20 (?). Would there be any way I could use that for the picture or... :: EDIT: It's really Nightwing Vol 3 19. --- Haroldrocks talk 23:24, October 9, 2013 (UTC) :::I believe the weight loss was courtesy of Neron in Underworld Unleashed. Kyletheobald (talk) 02:57, October 15, 2013 (UTC) The Question (Prime Earth) Due to the fact that his identity is not given, even if we can assume it's still Vic Sage, the new Question's history, "power" (facelessness in truth), and name are different in this new continuity. Should he have a page? GZilla311 (talk) 17:51, October 15, 2013 (UTC)GZilla311 :Yes. He should have a new page. Kyletheobald (talk) 13:01, October 17, 2013 (UTC) Jack Ryder Given his inclusion in the New 52 on several (extremely inconsistent) appearances, should we make a page for Jack Ryder? Considering he is now deliberately a separate entity from the Creeper. GZilla311 (talk) 07:00, October 27, 2013 (UTC)GZilla311 :I'd say he's different enough, he really ought to get a new page now. Kyletheobald (talk) 16:22, October 27, 2013 (UTC) Villain Month Characters I'm wondering if we should look through the remaining sheets of villains who have new spotlights in the New 52, and decide on who deserves full new sheets. For those who exist, but have not been given new pages (and have not been told not to have them), we have this list: Shauna Belzer (Prime Earth) (Ventriloquist) DeSaad (Prime Earth) Duela Dent (Prime Earth) (Joker's Daughter) Bane (Prime Earth) (this one's more debatable and unlikely, probably just a redirect) Joshua Michael Allen (Prime Earth) (Parasite) Anton Arcane (Prime Earth) Barbara Minerva (Prime Earth) (The Cheetah) First Born (Prime Earth) Think we should get these? Some could probably be just added in, but others seem like they should have full pages. GZilla311 (talk) 06:59, October 27, 2013 (UTC)GZilla311 :I'm not reading the books most of these characters appear in but Desaad and Cheetah can get new pages for sure. As for Ventriloquist, she's a new character entirely right? If a character has NOT appeared before they reboot, they can get a new page without any discussion. Kyletheobald (talk) 16:22, October 27, 2013 (UTC) Darkseid's World From various comments on his actions (through implication or direct mention), Darkseid's New 52 incarnation appears to have only one incarnation to the various universes of the New 52, and does not appear to reside in Prime Earth (given DeSaad's attempts to return to Apokolips revolving around a Boom Tube and no other possible methods, as well as the very limited actions of the Apokoliptians). In that vein, should we rename the articles involving the New 52 New Gods? Orion (if he gets a new one), Izaya (ditto), Uxas, Steppenwolf, and DeSaad, that is. I propose as an alternative to "Name (Prime Earth)" for them to be "Name (Post-Flashpoint)", in the spirit of articles that are mentioned as "Post-Zero Hour" and such. It seems to be a far better way to define them than to say that the New Gods are from Prime Earth, a prospect that seems increasingly unlikely. GZilla311 (talk) 17:55, November 11, 2013 (UTC)GZilla311 :I don't like the inconsistency that brings. I have enough "Post-Crisis" links to clean up as is. :What's the case with the Fourth World now is what was always the case: it's basically a pocket dimension. This time, they've just used the New 52 to explore something that was always a possibility: it's a pocket dimension accessible from various universes. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 18:00, November 11, 2013 (UTC) Gorilla Grodd Since I already did the rest of Flash's rogues would it be fine if I made Grodd a Prime Earth page? (I'm asking on the talk page for record keeping purposes only). Nep Everything's impossible until somebody does it. 02:51, December 10, 2013 (UTC) Barbara Gordon We really need to move the new 52 history to it's own page as the new earth and prime earth versions of Barbara have different biological parents and the prime earth version regained her ability to walk after 3 years where the new earth version was confined to a wheelchair to for longer then that and was still crippled when flashpoint happened.DalekSupreme13 (talk) 13:16, December 10, 2013 (UTC) :I believe we haven't made her a page yet because she's part of the Batman family, and they're strictly off-limits. --- Haroldrocks talk 13:42, December 10, 2013 (UTC) Krypto (Prime Earth) I think it's about time Krypto got his own Prime Earth page, is that fine? Nep Everything's impossible until somebody does it. 10:40, December 12, 2013 (UTC) Roman Sionis (Prime Earth) I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier: Roman Sionis (Prime Earth). He's pretty different. First off, he's not dead. I suppose Catwoman's execution of him was removed. Second, he has mind control powers now with the mask. Last, although, I admit, this isn't a very good point, he's bald. --- Haroldrocks talk 21:45, January 9, 2014 (UTC) :Agreed. - Hatebunny (talk) 22:08, January 9, 2014 (UTC) ::I think any (non-GL) character that was previously dead can have a page. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 22:16, January 9, 2014 (UTC) ::: With that being said, should we wait for Reaper (Prime Earth) to have his identity revealed before we make him a page? I mean, Judson Caspian (New Earth) was dead and now there's a guy that looks just like him alive. --- Haroldrocks talk 22:21, January 9, 2014 (UTC) ::::I think any character we're unsure on the name, we should just make it with the codename. Then if/when they're named, we can slap up the move tag. Or we can go to twitter and ask the creator, though that can lead to the Freight Train dilemma. Kyletheobald (talk) 22:47, January 9, 2014 (UTC) :::::I like going to the creators on Twitter when we have absolutely no idea on the name. With the Freight Train thing, we had half the name and asked for the rest, and we ended up with too much. I think it could work with Reaper since we're almost completely in the dark with this guy and he might have died in Arkham War #4. But, if you're still shellshocked from the Freight Train incident, I understand, and we can just make a simple "Reaper (Prime Earth)" page. --- Haroldrocks talk 23:05, January 9, 2014 (UTC) Jeremiah Arkham (Prime Earth) How about Jeremiah Arkham (Prime Earth)? He's kind of a mess in the New 52. Sometimes he's the head of Arkham Asylum (Detective Comics #9), sometimes he's an inmate (Batman #1), and sometimes he's just a normal doctor (I forget the issue). I don't know what to take as canon to use as evidence, honestly. --- Haroldrocks talk 13:34, January 11, 2014 (UTC) :I think we can ignore Batman #1. That came out so soon after the reboot there were bound to be problems with. Clock King also appeared in that, even though he would be introduced radically different in Green Arrow, and old-style Creeper had a photo appearance in JLI #1 well before his character was reintroduced properly. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 13:46, January 11, 2014 (UTC) ::To make matters worse, I think Jeremiah Arkham appears as Black Mask in Forever Evil: Arkham War Vol 1 2. In the first scene in Blackgate (the red pages), it appears that Jeremiah Arkham is fighting Mister Combustible in the background of the big picture on top. Then, Sionis appears later in #4. Jeez, is this just rampant Retcon Roulette? --- Haroldrocks talk 01:17, January 13, 2014 (UTC) Doom Patrol (Prime Earth) and Mary Elizabeth Kane (Prime Earth) I didn't see any discussions about these two, and they were created by a new user. I wanted to mention them here to ensure that they're alright. (Also, does this look unnecessarily indented. It does for me) --- Haroldrocks talk 11:38, January 21, 2014 (UTC) :I saw them. Doom Patrol is probably fine, since we already have a New Earth page (usually, for teams, we like to not have earth designations, but when we do, we might as well split, if they're significantly different). :As for Bette Kane, I warned the new user that she was a Bat-family character, and the page shouldn't have been made yet - but there was no use undoing the work when the goal is the same. (which should not be taken by anybody reading this as an opportunity to make bat-family characters thinking we won't do things about it). - Hatebunny (talk) 17:43, January 24, 2014 (UTC) League of Assassins (Prime Earth) This page has been in "Red Link Limbo" for a while now. Do we have any intentions for a Prime Earth page or should the links simply go back to New Earth? --- Haroldrocks talk 17:30, January 24, 2014 (UTC) :Like Doom Patrol, I think the fact that we have a New Earth page for them instead of a catch-all page suggests we should make a PE page. The weird connections to Lobdell's ridiculous Red Hood origins make it a pretty different team, from the ground up. - Hatebunny (talk) 17:43, January 24, 2014 (UTC) :: Alrighty, then. I'll get to work on the page pretty soon. I think I'll use the Batman and Robin Vol 2 23.3: Ra's al Ghul and the League of Assassins image, unless someone has a better idea. --- Haroldrocks talk 17:47, January 24, 2014 (UTC) Harvey Dent (Prime Earth) Seeing as Harvey Dent has been reimagined as a darker take on the character (a mob lawyer), should we give him his own page? GZilla311 (talk) 00:21, January 25, 2014 (UTC) :It's probably best to wait, at least, until the The Big Burn arc is finished. - Hatebunny (talk) 00:30, January 25, 2014 (UTC) :: Now that the arc is over, is Two-Face ready for a page? Especially considering --- Haroldrocks talk 13:05, June 1, 2014 (UTC) :::Yeah, I think so. - Hatebunny (talk) 13:48, June 1, 2014 (UTC) Arnold Wesker (Prime Earth) It seems the Ventriloquist baton has been passed off to Shauna Belzer in the New 52, but Wesker had a couple of appearances in the beginning. Honestly, this concept feels a little unsettling. Arnold Wesker, previously dead, is revived for two cameos in the New 52 and is then abandoned for a new female version. Thoughts about a PE page? --- Haroldrocks talk 02:42, February 3, 2014 (UTC) :These kinds of appearances annoy me, because the instinct of most of the editors on this wiki is to make a page for everyone who appears, regardless of whether they said a single word or not. In cases where it becomes clear it was a continuity gaff, I feel like it's best that we don't make a page, and perhaps add a note to the new earth page indicating his appearance there, and the probability that it was retconned, and not a legit appearance - Hatebunny (talk) 03:01, February 3, 2014 (UTC) :I would place it in line with Diana of Paradise Island (Earth-Two)'s appearance in the JSA shortly after COIE. It's a goof; it's just crowdfiller. I'd say no new page but only as note. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 11:25, February 3, 2014 (UTC) Mongul (Prime Earth) It wasn't discussed, but the Mongul (Prime Earth) page was created. (And terribly, I must add. The image wasn't sourced and there was zero information what-so-ever. It really is an eyesore.) Is it a keep or a delete? --- Haroldrocks talk 01:42, February 4, 2014 (UTC) :I didn't add any information because I'm not very familiar with the character, but noticed many links to the page so I figured I'd get the ball rolling on it before I realized it was recommended that DCnU character page creation be discussed. I think the page should be kept since DC plans to create a new continuity for the character on Prime Earth, so while many of the old characterizations and events may apply, they only do so insofar as they are discussed in New 52 comics. --Odie5533 (talk) 02:38, February 4, 2014 (UTC) ::He isn't vastly different but he did get a new origin. I'm fine with him having a Prime page. Kyletheobald (talk) 03:23, February 4, 2014 (UTC) Silas Stone (Prime Earth) Just because of the "Dead on New Earth / Alive on Prime Earth" rule. --- Haroldrocks talk 20:58, February 4, 2014 (UTC) :Agreed. - Hatebunny (talk) 21:12, February 4, 2014 (UTC) Thomas Oscar Morrow (Prime Earth) Given his more or less wholly heroic portrayal in this continuity (as his role is more or less just the assistant of Silas Stone, should we make a page for Dr. T.O. Morrow? I don't have a lot of information on him yet, but it seems more likely, especially since he's been stuck in red link limbo for quite a while. GZilla311 (talk) 19:49, February 8, 2014 (UTC) :Yes. Doesn't look like we're getting a PE RT anytime soon. :Also make a page for Sarah Charles, while you're at it. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 19:53, February 8, 2014 (UTC) :::My only problem is that I don't have any pictures for either of them from the New 52. Can someone find them? I do think they need images, but is it okay to put up a page without an image ready in this case? GZilla311 (talk) 19:59, February 8, 2014 (UTC) :::: Did somebody order a T.O.Morrow picture? It's not the best but it's better than nothing. --- Haroldrocks talk 20:12, February 8, 2014 (UTC) Richard Grayson (Prime Earth) I noticed that Nep had brought up the idea of making a Richard Grayson (Prime Earth) page back in November on the Richard Grayson (New Earth) talk page, and the idea wasn't immediately shut down. So, I'll ask, are we prepared to give Nightwing a Prime Earth page despite being a Bat Family member? Or, is the "No Bat" rule still firmly in place? I figured I'd give it a shot. --- Haroldrocks talk 22:35, February 17, 2014 (UTC) Assume real names are the same? Ok, let's say there was a character named Captain Calamari on New Earth, and he has a page called John Smoese (New Earth) because his real name is John Smoese. Then a Prime Earth version of Captain Calamari shows up. He appears in several issues, he resembles the previous Captain Calamari enough that it is clear he is a new version. But he never mentions his real name. Should the new Prime Earth page be John Smoese (Prime Earth) or Captain Calamari (Prime Earth)? Shadzane (talk) 22:00, February 4, 2014 (UTC) :Unless his origin is drastically different (like Question (Prime Earth)), I'd say Original Real Name (Prime Earth). We can always move it if he turns out to be called Juan Smoesierrez later. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 22:09, February 4, 2014 (UTC) ::That said, we could live without pages for characters who have only appeared, but never done much or said anything, which is happening a lot in books like Forever Evil. - Hatebunny (talk) 22:11, February 4, 2014 (UTC) ::: Does the "Now Alive on PE" rule still trump the "Few Appearances" rule like in the case of Reaper (Prime Earth)? --- Haroldrocks talk 23:38, February 4, 2014 (UTC) ::::Eh. If they talk, sure. If not... maybe not. - Hatebunny (talk) 01:53, February 5, 2014 (UTC) Red/Green Lanterns Currenty, a lot of Red and Green Lanterns show up with Prime Earth pages in Wanted Categories. Relink the appearances to New Earth, redirect the category to New Earth, or make the PE appearances category? --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 13:43, February 12, 2014 (UTC) :I'm the only one covering the actual Green Lantern books (everything but Red and Larfleeze). Earlier, we were planning on giving everybody Prime pages eventually so I started linking them that way. Then the other guys decided their pages would either end and start abruptly or duplicate information, which isn't ideal. Since everyone is basically the same, I was told to stop. So I guess those links should go back to New Earth right? As for Reds and Larfleeze, I really don't know. :On a related note, Guy and Fatality already have Prime pages. I feel that at least John should get one as well but Hal and Kyle seem sufficiently different too. Opinions? Kyletheobald (talk) 16:00, February 12, 2014 (UTC) ::I agree on Kyle, as his White Lantern power set is very different from his Green Lantern one. Hal I'm not so sure on. ::GZilla311 (talk) 19:34, February 16, 2014 (UTC) I'm of the opinion that we should have Prime Earth appearance categories just to keep things separate. If no PE page exists, and it's a character we don't want to split just yet, a redirect to the New 52 section of the New Earth page (on the PE page, not the cat) will solve any issues (because the link on the cat page will be redirected). The only issue is remembering which PE pages are redirects. - Hatebunny (talk) 20:09, February 16, 2014 (UTC) : For the redirect-remembering problem, we could make a new section on the Prime Earth Project main page like we're doing with the Disambig list. Would that fix that? --- Haroldrocks talk 20:42, February 16, 2014 (UTC) :{edit conflict) :I like that. It can be done for the images as well as the appearances. :As for remembering... One route may to have the Character Appearance and Character Image templates add a category based on the dab. Those then can be compared to the "Prime Earth Characters" category. (I think it can be limited to those categories where a corresponding article page exists.) But that only catches thing after the happen. :I would be nice if #REDIRECT automatically added a category... I know templates can be used, but we run into the same problem as having a page that editors edit to add that a redirect has been added: An editor is likely to be unaware of it/unwilling to use it. :- Byfield (talk) 20:44, February 16, 2014 (UTC) ::Harold, yes, that would fix that. ::Byfield, yes, we should be doing that for images too. Your idea would work too, but it would also be leaving this trail of messy "scaffolding" (read: code on templates that needs to be removed; categories in places they shouldn't be) we'd have to clean up and would probably just as easily forget about as which characters have pages and which don't. Just keeping a list would probably be easier. - Hatebunny (talk) 20:49, February 16, 2014 (UTC) Legion of Super-Heroes Has there been a decision as to splitting/naming these? Right now it looks like all of the post-Flashpoint appearances and images are tagged as "Pre-Zero Hour". This doesn't seem right since nothing in the runs really links to the original continuity. And then there is the last issued of Legion of Super-Heroes Vol 7 which seems to place the team not on Prime Earth but possibly Earth 2. - Byfield (talk) 11:55, February 18, 2014 (UTC) :One of the more iffy things about the Legion is that they have been shown to remember Flashpoint, (something about a "flashpoint wall?"), and despite the hinty nature of the the last issue, it's only hinty, not explicit. So, the assumption then - on Billy's part - is that this Legion is the same legion that existed pre-flashpoint, which is the pre-zero hour legion. - Hatebunny (talk) 14:01, February 18, 2014 (UTC) Rogues (Prime Earth) Pretty much all the characters have Prime Earth pages. Can the team get a separate page? Kyletheobald (talk) 21:12, February 19, 2014 (UTC) :My position on Team pages is that the team itself is an idea that exists regardless of which reality its members belong to. On the other hand, if there are a bunch of elseworlds versions with differing origins/lineups, it might be worth doing for the sake of a disambig. In this case... I'm more inclined to stick with the idea that the Rogues is still the same team, regardless of which reality the members belong to. (But I'm open to discussion). - Hatebunny (talk) 21:16, February 19, 2014 (UTC) ::I sort of treat it as "Flash Villains", but that's not entirely correct. It does create New 52 problems (just like Batman Family). If we're moving, we'd need to go over all appearancess because I know some EW/Media appearances are linked to the normal page. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 10:12, February 20, 2014 (UTC) Scott Free (Earth 2) I don't know anything about the guy, but he seems like a black sheep on all the pages. From what I've seen, he's the only New Earth direct on all the Earth 2 books. I don't know if there's some story details I'm simply oblivious to that explain this but I figured he'd need a mention, nonetheless. --- Haroldrocks talk 00:26, February 25, 2014 (UTC) :Wherever Scott Free is from, he's from the same place that all the New Gods come from. Unfortunately, we don't know where that is, if it's not prime earth. (That is, unless his origin has been changed... I stopped reading Earth 2 a while ago.) - Hatebunny (talk) 00:38, February 25, 2014 (UTC) ::He and Barda haven't been seen in a while. Not sure if that's because the sub-plot was dropped with the writing change or what. Kyletheobald (talk) 01:21, February 25, 2014 (UTC) :::Well they finally picked back up on that plot thread this week. I'm still not sure if the new gods are Prime Earth or Earth 2 or what though. Kyletheobald (talk) 19:00, March 8, 2014 (UTC) ::: That explains it. I was pretty confused to glance at the page and find a stray New Earth there. But that makes sense. Nothing to do with this guy, then. --- Haroldrocks talk 02:16, February 25, 2014 (UTC) ::::My understanding is that the New Gods have been attacking all of the alternate earths. Earth 2 is just one of many, so they're not FROM Earth 2, they're just on it. However, Scott and Barda aren't necessarily... New Gods. - Hatebunny (talk) 19:49, March 8, 2014 (UTC) Emily Sung (New Earth) I think we need to rename the Emily sung page to Emily sung (prime earth) the majority of the characters history takes place in the prime earth continuity and the only part of her history from before the new 52 was in flashpoint. essentially she has the same situation as damian and Constantine.DalekSupreme13 (talk) 12:54, March 2, 2014 (UTC) : I tend to agree. Kyletheobald (talk) 18:08, March 2, 2014 (UTC) Maxine Baker (Prime Earth)? Considering the major changes made to Maxine Baker (giving her superpowers, her age change, her connection to one of the guardians, Socks, etc), is it safe to say she can get her own character page now? It seems kind of awkward to put her in the New Earth one, what with all of the changes surrounding her. GZilla311 (talk) 22:00, May 26, 2014 (UTC) :She had powers in the original series as well, actually. But I did plan on splitting all of the Animal Man characters eventually, I just hadn't got around to it yet. - Hatebunny (talk) 22:02, May 26, 2014 (UTC) Miscellaneous Redlinks I've seen a couple of Prime Earth redlinks around like Drury Walker (Prime Earth) on Green Arrow Vol 2 25 and Larfleeze (Prime Earth) on a couple of the Larfleeze comic pages. Are these guys alright to have pages or should we just relink them to New Earth? --- Haroldrocks talk 13:05, June 1, 2014 (UTC) :Vengeance Moth hasn't actually been named yet, so, I'd wait on that one. Lawfleeze - I don't know. - Hatebunny (talk) 13:48, June 1, 2014 (UTC) ::Vengeance Moth and Killer Moth are two different characters. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 13:49, June 1, 2014 (UTC) :::I meant Killer Moth. Vengeance Moth is supposed to be Killer Moth's niece, though. - Hatebunny (talk) 13:51, June 1, 2014 (UTC) ::::Since KM changed names over the years (Walker, Von Cleer) I think it's better to call him KM (PE) for the time being. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 13:54, June 1, 2014 (UTC) ::::: Okay. Killer Moth (Prime Earth), instead. So, should we wait for a real name like Hatebunny suggested or is creating Killer Moth (Prime Earth) alright? --- Haroldrocks talk 14:37, June 1, 2014 (UTC) :::::My stance is if we make it at the codename, we have a nice shiny page for them and we can move it if/when they get named. Or when somebody takes to twitter. Kyletheobald (talk) 15:02, June 1, 2014 (UTC)